On the tip of my tongue Series 2 Episode 7 - Nigel Cheffers-Heard and Paula Fernley

Surviving Stroke and Navigating Aphasia: Nigel's Story

This podcast episode titled 'On the Tip of My Tongue' features Rob Edwards and Jonathan Hirons discussing aphasia, a language impairment often caused by a stroke or brain injury. They interview Paula Fearnley and Nigel Cheffers-Heard to hear Nigel's journey of recovering from a stroke that resulted in aphasia. Paula shares her challenges as a caregiver, their struggles with the healthcare system, and Nigel's progress over six years. The episode explores the social and occupational difficulties faced by aphasia patients and highlights the importance of community support, exercise, and persistence in recovery. It concludes by addressing the need for better workplace integration for those affected by aphasia.

00:00 A Shocking Turn of Events
00:29 Introduction to the Podcast
00:47 Understanding Aphasia
01:25 Nigel's Stroke Journey
04:07 The Struggle for Diagnosis
07:42 Recovery and Rehabilitation
10:57 Challenges in Daily Life
25:16 Returning to Work
31:58 Supporting Stroke Survivors
36:57 Conclusion and Resources

Say Aphasia Exeter

Transcript

Podcast S2 E7 - Nigel Cheffers-Heard and Paula Fernley
 

[00:00:00] I nipped across the road to catch a bus to go into Exeter and the next thing I knew was that I woke up in hospital unable to walk or talk. He came out of hospital walking looking like there was a gale blowing against him. So I can remember him pushing a trolley back to Sainsburys and then walking back towards me at this really peculiar angle struggling and fighting against this invisible force. 

Hi and welcome everybody and we hope you enjoy this podcast called On the Tip of My Tongue. Now I'm Rob Edwards and I'm Jonathan Hirons and this podcast is a follow up to a film which Jonathan made about Aphasia. So, what is aphasia? Well, it's a condition caused by some kind of injury to the brain, which is often, could be a stroke, or could be just falling off a bike. 

And it affects your ability to [00:01:00] use language in all its forms. Speaking, writing, reading, sending text, whatever. 350, 000 people in the UK suffer from a debilitating condition called aphasia. Fewer than half this number suffer from Parkinson's, and yet Most people have heard of Parkinson's, whilst almost nobody has heard of aphasia. 

Paula: Hello, I'm Paula Fearnley and I'm married to Nigel who had a stroke seven  

Years ago which left him with a degree of aphasia. 

Nigel: Hi, I'm Nigel Cheffers Heard. Yes, I'm married to Paula and I'm incredibly appreciative of the amount of support and encouragement she's given me in terms of recovering from a stroke. 

Jon: Thank you both for coming on the Tip of My Tongue podcast. Nigel, first of all, can we just talk about why [00:02:00] you have aphasia? Perhaps that, what, give me a quick rundown of what happened. 

Nigel: My recall of it is that I nipped across the road to catch a bus to go into Exeter, and the next thing I knew was that I woke up in hospital unable to walk or talk which was a bit of a shock, as you can imagine. 

Jon: Yes, 

Nigel: I could see a sign on a door that, that said something like, you know, bathroom and toilet or whatever, and I couldn't read it, and so I knew instantly that I'd had a stroke. Which, of course, sent me into kind of the depths of depression because, you know, I didn't know what the result of this would be. 

Jon: Were you in hospital for [00:03:00] long? 

Nigel: Yeah, several weeks. 

Jon: . So what happened with you, did, did you, is this to help you get back from not being able to talk and walk, or was it something more sort of serious than that? 

Nigel: I was very Well supported, I had a great physiotherapist had lots of support and treatment. Paul is probably better at telling you what, what they did, because I was only partially there a lot of the time, as you can imagine. 

Jon: Okay. So Paula, perhaps you can take up the 

Paula: Absolutely. Nigel doesn't really remember that time very well at all. He he had a night in intensive care because he couldn't keep himself together. He couldn't maintain his breathing. Fortunately, the following morning he did wake up and then was unsupported for breathing, but he couldn't do anything. 

He couldn't. He couldn't talk, he couldn't use his phone, I [00:04:00] mean he was monosyllabic, he could communicate, he was obviously in there, but he didn't know where his words were at all. It was very frightening for both of us but they didn't know he'd had a stroke. They did all the right tests, but sometimes they say they do them too quickly and then it doesn't actually show the damage to the brain. 

Nigel's epileptic and they thought he'd had a big fit. It wasn't till, he was sort of dismissed and sent home after a week ish. Saying, You know, there's nothing more we can do. I was trying to fight it to keep him in there because they, they seemed to be missing things. And they hadn't done another MRI at that point and I was desperate for them to do that because I thought this is just not right. 

This is not how he is after an epileptic fit. I got him home. I gave him some Scrabble letters and he couldn't put them in order. But if he traced the letter with his finger, he [00:05:00] He knew what the letter was. I was dumbfounded. And that's when I spoke to Barbara Chalk, a friend of mine, who was just about to set up a group called Living With Aphasia. 
 

And she said, well, that's aphasia. , it sounds like he's had a stroke. So I was like, well, they said he didn't. So at this point you're like, oh, well, what, what, what do we do? So we had a horrible six weeks where I thought he'd had a stroke, but he was on no medication for it. No support for it and it took me to get him a private MRI and some jiggery pokery with the GPs to get them to take me seriously and then once he'd had his private MRI it showed there was a problem which got him back into hospital and they then kept him in for two weeks as they did every test under the sun to [00:06:00] try and find out what caused it. 

Which they still didn't at that point. It took five years before they found out that he was having very intermittent atrial fibrillation, which is probably what the cause was. So it was, it was quite a journey and not, not great at all. 

Jon: I think it's incredible they hadn't picked up in the first Well, talk about me. Within half an hour, they'd worked out I'd had a bleed on my brain. So I think I must have had a CAT scan, I suppose. It wasn't an MRI, definitely wasn't an MRI, so it must have been a CAT scan. And that was within half an hour of getting to hospital. 

They figured out that's what had happened. And I don't remember the rest of it. My wife would have to tell you that, but at some point they worked out that I'd had aphasia. I ended up with aphasia. 

Paula: [00:07:00] Hmm. 
 

Jon: So, how different this is between, you know, this is the NHS, different versions of it. 

Paula: it is. It absolutely is. And, oh, I think they did everything they could at the time. But bed pressures, they wouldn't wait for the MRI. They sent us home. He got in the shower, he didn't know what to do, I had to mime, it was horrible. But now, you know, we're so much better, you know, he's so much healthier. 

Healthier diet, lots of exercise and we're trying to live the best life we can. 

Jon: So, Nigel, you lost your use of your language, Obviously it's coming back, or has come back. Did it take, how long did it take for you to get back, to get back to sort of, some sort of normality, obviously not normal, but you know, where you could maybe [00:08:00] your speech is returned  

Nigel: well, it's, it's extraordinary, really, in that my language was, I was always aware of it always being there. I spent my time in hospital, or at least some of it, doing kind of checks as to things I could do and things I couldn't do. And I could read, albeit very, very slowly and words were there even now I get the wrong words occasionally, but when, when you want them, generally speaking, they're there. 

Certainly the group I go to, I know there's quite a lot of people there with aphasia who have incredible trouble with their speech, and I realize how incredibly fortunate I am to have reached the point.  

Paula: When Nigel came out of hospital [00:09:00] he had a very tiny little voice. He was whispering. He wasn't speaking confidently like he is now. It was, it was quite peculiar. 

Jon: I forgot to ask, how long ago was that? When did it happen? How many years? 

Nigel: I think it was six years ago. 

Jon: Six years, 

Paula: Maybe seven. 

Jon: I found, and I'm going to ask Nigel this, can you, This is a problem I have, is that I can speak, obviously but I have to speak out loud. 

In fact, I have to read something. Sorry, start again. We're talking about reading here. If I, I can read quite happily in my head but if I have to read, if I have to read something out loud, I get into a terrible muddle. 

Nigel: really. 

Jon: Yes. 

Nigel: I do occasionally, but it's only occasionally, and it's with dare I say, polysyllabic words.  

Jon: This you can say, Polly Slavik. 

Nigel: Yes, that's right. It's very [00:10:00] difficult. That's right. I must be able to prove something. 

Jon: Yeah, yeah. 

Nigel: That certainly when I come to difficult words, there are words that I simply struggle over and then I go back and read them like a young child learning to read and do it phonetically a little bit at a time. 

Jon: I have a different problem. If I, if I had to, if you gave me anything to read now, I would struggle with it. I don't know why, but it's perfect, in my head I can see it. Absolutely, clearly, and I know what the words are, obviously. Well, you say, I say, obviously, but it is. I can see the words. 

I know what the words are, but I can't get them in, get them in order or whatever. Strange, isn't it? 

Nigel: It is the whole manifestation of aphasia has been most peculiar. One of the things that I'm very aware of [00:11:00] is that since my stroke, I have difficulty sorting out, you know, the symbols on toilets for male and female. I have great difficulty sorting those symbols out. I have to really stop and think about it. 

Yeah, and there are certain little things like that. That are really quite difficult. On the other hand, I can pick up an average book and read a reasonable amount of it. And then there'll just suddenly be one word that I trip over, and it doesn't quite translate. 

Jon: . And what about writing? Can you write? 

Nigel: I can write, but my writing is terrible. 

Jon: Yeah, so it's mine. For different reasons. I mean, in my previous life, I used to do presentations and [00:12:00] write for the presentations and so on and so forth. I could stand up and talk to anybody really. And that's kind of disappeared I can't, I can write, I mean I can write, you know, I can write a small sentence, a few sentences, but I find it quite difficult to do, and I slip out, tiny words, the big words I'm okay on, it's the little words that throw me, so it's weird, isn't it? 

And everybody I've spoken to with aphasia seems to have a different story. 

Nigel: It certainly doesn't have a textbook single manifestation, no. But like you, I used to also be a public speaker. I used to go places, stand up, talk for two and a half hours, no problem at all, no notes even, and just do it. And Paula knows [00:13:00] I was, I had done a talk about the history of imaging which was like a two and a half hour talk. 

And I put a huge amount of effort into it and could just do it. And now I'm not convinced that I could. 

Loving the podcast? Subscribe for more episodes and support the journey. Your donations help keep the show thriving. Please go to tipofmytonguefilm. com. Thank you for being part of our community. 

Jon: Because you're a photographer, weren't you? Oh, you are a photographer. So, what about your, your work, ? What, what, what happened then? Obviously you'd had a hiatus anyway, when you had your stroke. We think we had a stroke. You did have a stroke, obviously. So, what happened to work then? 

Did it just disappear? 

Nigel: Yes. Yes, I'm very happy to have, I mean, I've been a photographer for 40 [00:14:00] years and it, it can be really quite stressful sometimes. And one of the revelations is that a year or so ago I just woke up one morning and thought photography doesn't do it for me any longer and I just stopped. And that's it. 

And now the only photographs I take, really, are with my phone. I'm incredibly happy to help Paula take photographs and help her use her kit, etc. I'm not really, I'm not interested any longer. 

Jon: Did you lose the ability to, for the tech, from the technical side? 

Nigel: No, no, I can still pick up a camera. 

Know, do all the sums. You know, I used to teach photography. in East London, and teaching 16 year olds, the depths of things like Reciprocity of the various laws that go [00:15:00] with photography, the laws of physics they're still here and I can access them 

Jon: You've lost your interest in it, shall we say. Right. That's sad though, isn't it? I mean, it's not sad to you, because obviously it doesn't bother you, but. Sounds like it should be sad, really. 

Nigel: yeah, but it, it was a good life whilst it lasted, I mean, I used to illustrate books photographically for HarperCollins, and I did 65 books, so I think, I think I've had a good run for my money. And I also think that one of the great things about creativity is that there is a point when you have to know that enough is enough. 

And I think the problem with a lot of creative people is they are determined to carry on. I think it's always good to stop and go out at a high point. Yeah. 

Jon: [00:16:00] view. I think you're right. I think you're right. Some people do go on for too long. And some don't, of course. You know, some artists never, never stop, do they? And they're quite good at what they do, you know. But some people, yes. So Paula, just bringing you back into the sort of fold as it were. 

 What I want to talk, talk about now really is supporting people. I, I, I did one podcast earlier talking, well, I did two actually, but one was about from the caring caring side of things. So the, the guy from Carers UK came onto the podcast. And we talked about, how people are supported generally in the caring world. 

So, a lot's fallen on you, obviously in the last six years, 

 What's your view on this? 

Paula: Nigel's memory has definitely been affected by his stroke, and listening to his potted history of his story is quite amusing from my [00:17:00] perspective. Because the day he had his stroke with The day after we just decided we were going to set up a business together. He was going to be back office, computing, graphics, website. 

And I was going to be the photographer in a newborn baby business. So yes, he had given up, you know, the camera, but he, we were still going to do this together. And this is something that we were both looking forward to. So that totally put a kibosh on. Because he, he couldn't use a camera, phone, technology, anything for about three months. 

It took three months before I could leave him because he couldn't call me on a phone if He needed me. So that was, that was probably the most difficult three months, right back at the beginning. Yes, it got easier once he could call me, but he, yeah, I suppose there's a lot of confidence that people lose when they've had a stroke. 

So even when they can [00:18:00] do things, they're, they're a little bit afraid, afraid of doing it. So I think there's been a lot of hand holding to, to get him back doing stuff that. He can do, and it's trying to find those things that he can do. And cycling is one of those things that Nigel has always done, and was actually keen to get to know. 

back doing before I was ever ready for him. I mean, he came out of hospital walking, looking like there was a gale blowing against him. So I can remember him pushing a trolley back to Sainsbury's and then walking back towards me at this really peculiar angle, struggling and fighting against this invisible force. 

So I'm like, What, you can't walk straight, never mind ride a bicycle. But he decided that this particular day this was going to be the day regardless of whether I was ready or not, so instead of letting him go around the estate where we lived I put the bike on the back of the car and we went [00:19:00] to a cycling proficiency area we've got in a park and I have some video of him making his first wobbly Steps back on the bicycle. 

He did all right. He was very, very slow. But we had a, a figure of eight practice thing that he could cycle round. So he was getting his balance back and trying to go round it. And when he cracked one way, I said, what about the other way? And Nigel went, what other way? 

Jon: There is no other way. 

Paula: Yeah. Quite and. So, so cycling has been the key to his independence and getting around and getting to go to the groups. So, I think without having had this cycling in him that thankfully the stroke didn't stop that, that's been key, hasn't it? For you to have some independence. 

Jon: It's, yeah, and it's it's exercise as well, isn't it? [00:20:00] Because that's, that's the thing that I've found out, well I knew anyway, but I've talked to others, is that good exercise helps anybody that's had a stroke, or has aphasia, is to keep active , and do as much as you can, and to be as fit as you can be, 

Paula: absolutely. One of our friends at Headway has told us that there's been some studies recently that show exercising your legs is the best thing for your brain because there's an awful lot of good stuff made in the bone marrow in the thighs, not just red blood cells, that all help with brain So I think cycling, walking, they're all great exercises for ongoing You know, ongoing healing. 

And I think, I think Nigel still is healing. He, every now and then he will do something that surprises [00:21:00] me that he's not done before. And you think, oh my word, that's, that's another step forwards. I mean you say, what, what do I do for him? I, I sort all his pills out, because he's on a raft of pills. Every day he needs to take, morning and evening. 

So they're all in a dosette. So I can easily see whether he's taken them or not. We have dear old Alexa that reminds us, don't read twice a day. 

Jon: Bloody Alexa. 

Paula: Yeah, but it's better to do what she says than ignore her. And yeah, and organizing. Nigel, because he's lost his executive functioning, so I'm told, that means that his organizational capabilities are not so brilliant. I think he's actually quite good at remembering. If there's a date, he will remember it. He seems to imprint it. In there, but when there's a like a, a list of things, that's when things go awry. 

Jon: Is that since, or has that always been there? If you know what I [00:22:00] mean. 

Paula: No, it's definitely since, definitely 

Jon: people are just born like that 

Paula: yeah. 

Jon: So you go to the groups Nigel. 

The group that I have been to. So how long, obviously you've been going since day one, have you, more or less? 

Nigel: Yes, absolutely 

and it's marvellous going to the groups because they're sort of very tight knit. Everyone who comes to the groups is accepted and it's like they become a member of the family. And therefore there is this, this, this huge effect of the family support. And, and so it just becomes natural to keep going there. 

The other great thing about going to the groups, is that by talking to people and every, you know, obviously we all chat. [00:23:00] But by talking to people about what we're doing, you realize that there are people who are going through the same steps that I can just remember going through in the past. And it's really good to be able to encourage them to say, look, you know, you can get through this. 

You can do this and to know that all these years on that things are still improving is, is in, in many ways, it's totally extraordinary that this is happening, but to be aware of it and to tell other people stick at it. You can do it. 

Jon: Yeah, that's right. Persistence is everything, isn't it? 

Nigel: Oh, gosh. Yes. 

Jon: But I wonder In your experience, do you find people do kind of give up? 

Nigel: [00:24:00] Yes. I think they, I think some people do. Yeah. It's very, I think it's very easy to give up. Yeah. The generally speaking, you are surrounded by people who have no concept of what's happened and what you're going through and what the possibilities for the future are. And therefore they don't want to stress you or tax you in any way. 

And therefore they will tend to let you off easily. Whereas in fact, you've got to keep at it. 

Paula: I'm cracking the 

Jon: For the audio. Yes, Paula's cracking the whip.  

Before we start, let me introduce you to a friend of the show, who's got a fantastic podcast. Hi, I'm Talia Lazarus and in 2021, I was relearning how to walk and in 22, I was learning how to run 21 kilometers. So join me [00:25:00] on I Got Back Up as I share powerful life stories. Unexpected challenges and moments can defeat us, but the human spirit possesses an immense strength that allows us to rise above the darkest moments, rebuilding our lives in extraordinary ways. 

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Jon: Well, this brings me, brings me rather neatly to another thing that I'm going to start doing on the podcast is I want to talk about people who I'm talking about people who need to go back to work, because a number of people on the podcast have still got a lot of time left. 

I've talked to 20 year olds, 25 year olds, 30 year olds, who have got all this time in front of them, and I want to Start talking to people about how do you get people with our, with our aphasia, which versions we have, [00:26:00] back to work or, or at least working, in the community, if not just work, you know, work, work, but, you know, just being a member of the community. 

 I've already talked to people, that it's quite hard for people to get back into work because the employer doesn't quite, well, we know, doesn't understand what's going on with someone who has aphasia. Why can't you do this? Or why can you do this and not do that? 

Nigel: Yeah, absolutely. I think employers always have the the attitude of responsibility and taking responsibility for you. And when you have someone who has a, who has, whatever brand of aphasia it is, they don't want to take on that extra responsibility. I remember at some time in the past one of my photographic [00:27:00] clients said to me, for heaven's sake, don't tell anyone in the organization that you're epileptic because you won't get any more work from them. 

Because they'll be terrified that you'd have an epileptic fit whilst you were here working. And I think there is an element of that. People are always Risk averse, aren't they? 

Jon: Yes, yes. Two things. I know someone who's, he is working and he had his, well he had a, a, a head injury while at work and so he's still, apparently still on their payroll, but they pushed him around because they don't know what to do with him, because he has aphasia. 

. So he's in work, but he's not being fulfilled, shall we say, because they're just giving him things to do that, I dunno what they do. I think they're trying to get rid of him. Between you [00:28:00] and me, I suspect they want him to go. So that, as, and picking up what you are saying, Nigel, is that they won't have the responsibility, therefore. 

And then also you've got people who want to work and, and try to get, a position and can't get past the door because of, you know, They have to, obviously these days, people have to tell you what you do and what's wrong with you and what's not wrong with you. 

Because that's how HR works 

Nigel: Oh gosh, yes. 

Jon: HR is our devil in some ways, because they want to know 

Nigel: yes. 

Jon: So a lot of people don't even get through the door. Whereas they'd be perfectly good doing, you know, most of the jobs that They could, could be done perfectly well, 

Nigel: so the people who actually run HR departments, they need educating as well. 

Jon: yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Paula: I think it depends on the, you know, the degree of the stroke and the degree of what it's affected. Because [00:29:00] so many people suffer with fatigue that they probably, you know, do need to cut their hours down. And, and they need that support. They need someone to help them, you know, that bit of support. If things are going a bit wonky in the brain, it's like just someone, you know, is it this or is it that? 

 Just to help out. I mean, it's like aphasia. Strokes are so different, aren't they? Between people. Nigel had double vision or has double vision and it's corrected with prisms in his glasses. But for quite some time he tried to fight it. He wanted the muscles to recover. And that made reading even more difficult, so the speech therapist cut a window in a piece of cardboard that was just a line thick. 

And so he could take that down the page to make it easier for him to see which words he was supposed to be reading. Because he got one eye reading the line above and one eye [00:30:00] on a different one. So yeah, it was, it was quite, quite tricky. I, I know a chap who had a stroke at 40 because he had an undiagnosed hole in the heart. 

And he did get back to being an accountant. But it took a long time. It did take him a long time to, to get back there. 

Jon: To find a position, or get back to, right,  

Paula: yeah. I mean, I think he, he went, I, I think he was so poorly, he, he, you know, he was fortunate and he, he pulled out of what he was doing. But not everyone has that, do they? 

Not, not everyone can stop working easily. 

Jon: if you're,, in your 40s, or any age really, but even in your 50s and you've got to keep working for whatever reason. Most people do, don't they? 

Paula: Yeah. 

Jon: mortgages and stuff like that to, to deal with. You can't be, you know if you can get any sort of help from the government, it won't be very much money. 

I would have, you know, you'll get Attendance allowance or whatever, you know, it's about [00:31:00] 100 a week, sorry, you know, it's nothing, you know, go nowhere. So, and, and the government wants to get people, want more people working. I think there's an untouched, untouched load of people, you know, with aphasia could probably fill some, some of the, the hole. 

With what they, what? With their capable, with whatever they're capable of doing. 

Paula: Mm 
 

Jon: But you, you, I take your point about the, the tiredness, because I'm sure Nigel gets the same. I get tired as well. There's only so much I can do and then I, I get, I think I can't do this any longer, so I don't think I could do a full working day anymore, but I could probably do half a day. 

Paula: Yeah. 

Jon: if I wanted to. But I'm sure somebody in their thirties, forties could manage, you know, 25 hours a week or whatever it might be. But anyway. That's going to be [00:32:00] my new crusade. So I've got, I've got I've got a lady from Hedway coming in, you know, about a couple of weeks time to talk just about this, this particular, yeah. 

Because they, obviously aphasia is not their custom word. core thing, you know, it's head injuries, it's not always, people with a head injury don't always get aphasia, that's the point. But anyway, but they were quite interested to talk about the aphasia side of things to do with people getting back to work. 

Paula: Mm. 

Jon: see how that goes. 

Paula: There are some companies like, is it BNQ and Waitroses? They're good at getting people back into, into work. Who have got difficulties. 

Jon: abilities. Yes. Problems. Yeah. Because we've got, we've got a hidden disability, haven't we? This is, this is our problem. Do you get the same thing, Nigel, do people say, What's wrong with you? 

Talk. 

Nigel: sometimes [00:33:00] you talk to people and you say, listen, I need a bit of help because, and you explain to them, and you know that somewhere behind their eyes, they're thinking, is this person trying to con me? You know, is this actually the truth? You know, certainly the classic is when you need a lavatory. When, since my stroke, When I need to pee, I need to pee. 

 If you're out, you know, there are very few public lavatories around these days. And you go into a shop and you say, I need a toilet. I've had a stroke or whatever. And they're very, very reluctant to help you. And You know, persuading people can be quite difficult, but it comes with practice really. 

Jon: Going into shops when I get there, I get into a bit of a muddle. But actually most people are quite good. 

They go, they [00:34:00] obviously work out that there's something you're not quite right, and they're quite, people in shops are generally quite good. But yeah, there's always going to be somebody who doesn't want to, doesn't want to know, and it's going back to what you were saying about they don't want the responsibility , even using their toilet. 

Paula: a lot of people are frightened of things they don't understand, aren't they? And Yeah, I mean, I was a dentist in a previous life, so I've met all sorts of people with all sorts of problems and always just took the time to take a deep breath. Okay, I don't quite know what's wrong with this person, but give them the chance to speak and I'm sure we can work something out. 

And I think that's kind of what people who have had the stroke, that's what they need. Some of our friends were the lanyard with the sunflower on it, which is a clue [00:35:00] there is, you know, you have a hidden disability. We haven't gone down that route. There's, there's part of me that worries about Nigel being taken for a ride if he expresses this. 

I mean, we have a story when he came out of hospital maybe six months in and he was incredibly gullible. You know, he would believe anything anybody told him. And I was a bit worried when he was out and about, that, oh, I don't know what kind of trouble he could get himself into, but I was just concerned. 

So I told him not to speak to strangers. And we were, we were in 

Jon: he's not six, you know. 

Paula: Well, yeah, but there was a childlike innocence about 

Jon: Right, okay, 

Paula: back in the beginning. So we were in the supermarket and this bloke's trying to attract his attention and he's just pushing the trolley vehemently forwards without engaging with [00:36:00] this guy. 

And eventually this guy got to me and went, it's Dr Addy. I looked after your husband in hospital. But he didn't recognize him. And that's another thing that Nigel suffers with. He's almost got face blindness. It takes him quite a long time. To recognize a new, a new face. So there's lots of people from his past that will come up to him and speak to him, but he's no idea who they are. 

So we have some entertaining moments, 

Jon: I'm sure you do. Well, this has been very interesting to speak to you. Well, thank you very much for coming, both of you, to come on the Tip of My Tongue podcast. I wish you well, and obviously we'll be in touch 

Paula: It's 

Jon: time. Yeah, thank you for coming. 

Nigel: Yes, I wish the podcast all success. 

Jon: Thank you very much. Okay. Goodbye. Bye bye. 

Jon (2): Thank you for listening to this On the [00:37:00] Tip of My Tongue podcast. We hope you found it helpful and informative. Now, if you want more help and information about strokes and aphasia, please go to stroke. org. uk, say aphasia, that's s a y aphasia, or one word, dot org, or the aphasia page of nhs. uk. Enjoying the podcast? Subscribe for more episodes and support the journey. Please go to tipofmyfilm. com in the description. Thank you. 

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